Hey I was at the Porsche club meeting last night (Chris Economaki was speaking) and they mentioned that they were challenged by the BMW club in autocross. I remember suggesting this to Elihu at the end of last season, but can anyone confirm that it's true? I think it would be a fun event!
Any other news that you can report now about potential changes to autocross that have been discussed?
--Norbert
Porsche club challenged?
I know that there was just a bit of discussion about this at the end of last season. I think the main sticking point would be the classification system so 'like' cars would compete against each other.
I don't know if anyone went so far as to challenge the Porsche club formally.
I'm not sure I want to get classed against Radomin's 911 GT3...
Dave
I don't know if anyone went so far as to challenge the Porsche club formally.
I'm not sure I want to get classed against Radomin's 911 GT3...Dave
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2002M3Drew
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I think I instigated that whole BMW vs. Porsche thing over on that board. 
There had been a thread about new autocross ideas last fall, and I thought it would be a lot of fun, and social, to get the clubs together for a good natured competition! I had mentioned it to you, Dave, and to Elihu and the last Arts Center autox date, and Howard at PCA has been on board with it as well (he's a great guy). The only problem, of course, is a relative scarcity of event dates. If we worked this competition into one of the regular PCA dates at the Meadowlands, though, I don;t think it would hurt anyone. It would simply be another date for this club, a regular date for the PCA crowd, and those willing to do the PCA vs. CCA battle could be a part of that. (SCCA sometimes has competitions within their autocrosses, like the Tri-State Challenge, and there is no disruption to attendance or income.)
Further fueling the fire recently, however, are a few knuckleheads in PCA that are lobbying their club to eliminate X Class (i.e. non-Porsches) from their autocross events. What better to clear the air of superiority than to trounce some P-Cars with M3s? Of course, you will all forgive me if I participate in my 911, right?
It could be fun...some autocross, some bratwursts and beer...anyone?
There had been a thread about new autocross ideas last fall, and I thought it would be a lot of fun, and social, to get the clubs together for a good natured competition! I had mentioned it to you, Dave, and to Elihu and the last Arts Center autox date, and Howard at PCA has been on board with it as well (he's a great guy). The only problem, of course, is a relative scarcity of event dates. If we worked this competition into one of the regular PCA dates at the Meadowlands, though, I don;t think it would hurt anyone. It would simply be another date for this club, a regular date for the PCA crowd, and those willing to do the PCA vs. CCA battle could be a part of that. (SCCA sometimes has competitions within their autocrosses, like the Tri-State Challenge, and there is no disruption to attendance or income.)
Further fueling the fire recently, however, are a few knuckleheads in PCA that are lobbying their club to eliminate X Class (i.e. non-Porsches) from their autocross events. What better to clear the air of superiority than to trounce some P-Cars with M3s?
Of course, you will all forgive me if I participate in my 911, right?It could be fun...some autocross, some bratwursts and beer...anyone?
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2002M3Drew
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Re: Porsche club challenged?
I was there, too! Great speaker, huh? That guy is a real kick, especially at age 84. Do you have a P-Car as well?brunhuber wrote:Hey I was at the Porsche club meeting last night (Chris Economaki was speaking) and they mentioned that they were challenged by the BMW club in autocross. I remember suggesting this to Elihu at the end of last season, but can anyone confirm that it's true? I think it would be a fun event!
Any other news that you can report now about potential changes to autocross that have been discussed?
--Norbert
Hey Drew!
I remember that now. I'd definitely be up for something like that - bring on the 911TTs!
You know, I've been following that thread over on the NNJR forums. I'm glad that we have an open door policy on cars. Maybe it's a matter of 'car people' versus 'Porsche people' or 'BMW people' - I'd like to think that everyone who comes to our events are 'car people' and just happen to have BMWs.
Dave
I remember that now. I'd definitely be up for something like that - bring on the 911TTs!
You know, I've been following that thread over on the NNJR forums. I'm glad that we have an open door policy on cars. Maybe it's a matter of 'car people' versus 'Porsche people' or 'BMW people' - I'd like to think that everyone who comes to our events are 'car people' and just happen to have BMWs.
Dave
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2002M3Drew
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Totally agree, Dave. I'm "83911SCDrew" over on that board (creative, huh?), and you'll see in that X-Class thread I've pretty much been crucified for my opinions on the subject. The really liked it when I said they were Elitist Porsche Weenies! Even more when I suggested that the Cayenne be put into SM (soccer mom) class. (I don't care about the profit...a Porsche truck is still a blasphemy to me!)
By and large, though, those guys are cool and just as much into their cars as the CCA'ers are.
911TTs are terrible autocrossers! GT3s, on the other hand...
By and large, though, those guys are cool and just as much into their cars as the CCA'ers are.
911TTs are terrible autocrossers! GT3s, on the other hand...
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mgershanok
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We actually entertained the idea of interclub's competition few times, but that never materialized, primarily because of the visible lack of interest from the other clubs. The offer to host the venue like that still stands at one of our - M-club - autocrosses at Meadowlands. Within our classification we can easily accomodate the range of BMWs and Porsches fairly even, as well as anybody, who want to represent our club in any other car. The ground rules in our format are pretty easy to work out with no need for PAXing. We can even make it into annual event of BMW vs Porsche vs M-club. Sounds exciting? Just someone needs to energise Elihu and Howard. Myself and Peter are all for it. Michael G (M-club).
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2002M3Drew
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Hey Mike,
That's a good idea, and would allow both "teams" to include regulars that are not actually in their region. Marco R. (with his new E30 M3), Harold C. with the E36 powered E30 M3, Andrea with his Coupe, Adil with his M3, and possibly Carlos (latter three from NYR). On the Porsche side, there are also a bunch of NY and CT guys at their events. Only problem with the Porsche guys is that they get very hung up on their classifications, even those used within their own club. I had suggested using the M-Club classes on the P-Car board for interclub competition, and many were already complaining about the classes being unfair, so who knows. I think if they just set up the event and stop entertaining suggestions, it would work fine.
That's a good idea, and would allow both "teams" to include regulars that are not actually in their region. Marco R. (with his new E30 M3), Harold C. with the E36 powered E30 M3, Andrea with his Coupe, Adil with his M3, and possibly Carlos (latter three from NYR). On the Porsche side, there are also a bunch of NY and CT guys at their events. Only problem with the Porsche guys is that they get very hung up on their classifications, even those used within their own club. I had suggested using the M-Club classes on the P-Car board for interclub competition, and many were already complaining about the classes being unfair, so who knows. I think if they just set up the event and stop entertaining suggestions, it would work fine.
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mgershanok
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I agree, it should be interesting venue to have. Regarding our classes in respect to Porsches, I don't see much of unfairness there. We're trying to use as much common sense and knowledge to make it right, but we may not be as elaborate in details as the PCA, since we allow wider margin within the given class to begin with. But as a side note, I was pleased to see, that we placed new '05 Porsches exactly as PCA did, relatively other older models (and we had our meeting before PCA's discussion on classes). We will update our classes on the website shortly. The same happened in respect to us and SCCA moving up Honda S2000 and some others. We welcome any input, considering improvements in competition and preserving the fairness within our format. Anyway, once will get our dates, we can attempt to organize the interclub challenge event, but that depends mainly on the interest from other clubs. Michael.
dngo wrote:I know that there was just a bit of discussion about this at the end of last season. I think the main sticking point would be the classification system so 'like' cars would compete against each other.
I don't know if anyone went so far as to challenge the Porsche club formally.
Dave
I Do!
I think you left out two crucial Axis of Oversteer members....Matt and Steve... tsk tsk!2002M3Drew wrote:Hey Mike,
That's a good idea, and would allow both "teams" to include regulars that are not actually in their region. Marco R. (with his new E30 M3), Harold C. with the E36 powered E30 M3, Andrea with his Coupe, Adil with his M3, and possibly Carlos (latter three from NYR). On the Porsche side, there are also a bunch of NY and CT guys at their events. Only problem with the Porsche guys is that they get very hung up on their classifications, even those used within their own club. I had suggested using the M-Club classes on the P-Car board for interclub competition, and many were already complaining about the classes being unfair, so who knows. I think if they just set up the event and stop entertaining suggestions, it would work fine.
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mmarvuglio
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